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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Luck vs Leadership (morale)
Thread: Luck vs Leadership (morale)
Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 10, 2020 11:12 PM
Edited by Orc at 23:15, 10 Jan 2020.

Luck vs Leadership (morale)

Hello,

I always thought Leadership is much better than luck. but now I realise there is something I never took into consideration.

Luck works on retaliation, whereas morale is restricted to creature actual turn.


so now lets put this to the comparison list:

1-)Morale doubles the unit Turn > Luck only gives +1.00 to attack factor. this means that morale gives better bonus in unit turn overall. However, Lucky strike can be lucky enough to receive no enemy retaliation (target is ded)

2-)Morale is better vs multiple stacks > Luck

3-)Luck is very good with Royal Gryphons/CounterStrike +  armorer. Leadership bonus is nowhere near that. a hero with single gryphon stack retaliation will be so strong.


overall luck will increase damage by 12.5%, while morale will increase only creature turn damage by 12.5%


I'd still take Leadership overluck (except in 3rd case), but it was good to know that luck is somewhat comparable and not much worse than leadership.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted January 11, 2020 12:21 AM

without having any clue about all these stats I have instinctively liked luck more than morale. Now I know why

I've never seen royals under armorer specialists, and lucky as phuck. With some bless on them it would be quite a sight
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 11, 2020 01:47 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 01:52, 11 Jan 2020.

Even if HotA introduced bad luck and Shaman's Puppet is quite frequent, besides artifacts there are just a few creatures that give bad luck, while the simple mixture of troops of different towns, something almost inevitable, is enough to completely tear down your morale.
I always preferred leadership to luck and not because of the extra turn you get from time to time but because the loss of one can be devastating. Imagine you are using a few Archdevils to attack and return while you bait with another large stacks of Ancient Behemoths, if these stacks lose their turn the ABs will smash them and then move in the direction of your shooters and you cant do nothing about that.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted January 11, 2020 02:36 AM

Bad luck sets the damage to 50%, "bad morale" to 0.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 11, 2020 01:09 PM

Morale also helpful with activated abilities, like archangel resurrection. Also allows you to strike and move out of reach or attack a second target.

Thing is, you already start with +1 morale and it's already easy to get another 2 from artifacts or map locations so kind of pointless in the end.
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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 11, 2020 04:35 PM

Yes morale is better because you can chose target. Luck is worse. So luck should give higher bonus to ballance.

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Rakso
Rakso


Adventuring Hero
posted January 11, 2020 05:28 PM

Why not both?

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 11, 2020 06:53 PM
Edited by Orc at 18:53, 11 Jan 2020.

Rakso said:
Why not both?


some  play on limited Secondary skills mod. they cant learn more than 8

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MrWumpus
MrWumpus

Tavern Dweller
posted January 17, 2020 06:16 PM

Orc said:
some  play on limited Secondary skills mod. they cant learn more than 8


Wow, have I been out of the loop. There are mods that allow more than 8 skills?
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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted January 24, 2020 10:10 PM

MrWumpus said:
Orc said:
some  play on limited Secondary skills mod. they cant learn more than 8


Wow, have I been out of the loop. There are mods that allow more than 8 skills?


yes in Era 2 its unlimited. there is also advanced hero lvl up mod which let you select exactly which skill to increase when lvl up

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 25, 2020 01:26 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:27, 25 Jan 2020.

I wish there was some way to have more than 8 skills in HotA. Market of Time would also be nice.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 26, 2020 02:39 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 02:40, 26 Jan 2020.

morale makes your creature more than do double damage... cast additional spell, move and move back, move and attack and kill a stack, move and attack and kill again...

Morale is miles better ahead of luck.

And remember in default H3 fir which this subforum is, there is no negative luck, whereas there is negative morale.

Thus, morale addition averts bad morale which is army-destroying, while luck addition averts nothing negative.

THis is not favoritism: actually I like the flavor for luck more, since "morale" is too generic and I like the horseshoe effect and Rampart, so... still, luck is bad.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted January 26, 2020 11:43 AM

Morale is better in general.

Orc is right about luck is also relevant in your opponents turns because of retalition + that with lucky strike, enemy will suffer more, and thus their retalition is weaker.
Morale has also no effect for Necropolis and most of Conflux units, so luck is obviosly better for those armies. In case shooters would like to keep shooting on a single (huge) stack, luck would potentially have more value there, since shots are limited.
But that's really it, I cannot think more cases where luck would be better.

One thing  I haven't seen mentioned yet is that even the game tells you that while lucky strike "unit x deals double damage", this isn't actually the case: only the base damage is been doubled, not the additional sources of bonus dmg. So even during your own turn, in case enemy isn't striking back, 2 hits from morale will deal more damage than one hit from a lucky strike.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
posted January 26, 2020 01:12 PM

Heroes 5 made Luck more useful, especially with Casters and Sylvan Elves(aka Rampart ones).

Nature Luck skill make all units under hero command strike always with lucky attacks.


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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 27, 2020 01:39 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 21:36, 27 Jan 2020.

Other things that makes luck worse and morale more revelant:

- Morale triggers on actions like moving and spellcasting (not sure if triggers on setting defense mode, I think not). Luck only on attack. This makes morale (and bad morale) trigger more than luck even counting "retaliations".

- Bad morale triggers at start of every turn and completely nullifies the turn, bad luck only triggers on strike and only partially diminishes the strike.

- By attacking more times with Morale, you get extra chances of applying attack spells and effects (like Basilisk attack, etc.); in luck you only get normal chance; Forthermore to always, applied effects like Dragon Fly weakness, you get to apply it again with morale and not with luck (it would be interesting that Luck modified the chance to get the random effects)

- In "double strikes" like Elf double shoot, of which there are several including melee, Luck will only trigger in one of the attacks, making it "1.5x damage" in theory; whereas Morale will giuve a full 2x attacks, making it actually double damage (not to mention killing another stack if the first one was dead)

One small bonus of luck:

- With luck attacks enemy will only retaliate after the "double damage", while in Morale double attacks they may retaliate after first time with pseudo-half that damage done... if they were retaliating. In truth a wise commander will attack enemies that can't relatiate with their important stacks (like attacking with multiple units to the same creature) so this point tends to not apply to experienced players.
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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 27, 2020 03:36 PM

Morale is better than Luck. But Luck supports 50% damage, bless and disrupting ray. So without fear of revenge. Why Morale is better than Luck? Example Archangels strike creature to zero, and get a good morale, and then strike another again. Death Knight should learn Luck, but belonged to artifacts. So save his/her skill. How about Conflux? 1 Morale and 3 Luck is enough well. When if all creature are the same town type, it gets 2 Morale. It works at Conflux, because Conflux has only two living creature. I don't know how. But I always use a strategy.
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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 28, 2020 12:32 AM

In hota leadership is better than luck. The reason is that you get a lot of creatures from creature banks, so you end up with mixed army that has low morale.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 28, 2020 05:38 PM

Zaio-Baio said:
In hota leadership is better than luck. The reason is that you get a lot of creatures from creature banks, so you end up with mixed army that has low morale.


The same SoD. You use a Diplomacy so your mixed troops in the random map, for example.

@orc

I agree also counterstrike. Deeper strategy. So you realize why Luck is Air.  
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